David 0:00

What's holding your business back? We'll give you a hint. It's one thing. What is that one thing? We'll find out on this episode of Shift Shapers.

Announcer 0:11

Change either paralyzes or energizes. The choice is yours. You're listening to the Shift Shapers podcast. You're about to learn firsthand from businesses and entrepreneurs who have successfully shaped the shifts in their industry. Get ready to become the change you want to see. This episode is brought to you by Shift Shaper Strategies. In sales, if you confuse, you lose. Clarify your message so you win more clients, crush your sales goals, and build your practice. Learn more at Chip Shaper Strategies.com. And now, here's your host, Story Brand Certified Guide and Chief Transformation Strategist. At Shift Shaper Strategies, David Staltzman.

David 1:03

On this episode of Shift Shapers, we're speaking with Ed Crow, who is founder and HR strategist, and we'll explore that in a little bit, at the eponymous Ed Crow LLC. And I thought today would be a great time to talk about adapting and changing business conditions. And we'll start with the whole HR strategist thing. But first, welcome, Ed. Thanks for being here. Hey, I appreciate you having me, David. It's good to be here. Our pleasure. So what is an HR strategist?

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Well, you know how most times when someone says, I work in HR, the first thing that happens is the other person groans. Oh gosh, you're one of those people, right? And so I realized long ago that if I was going to get through to business owners and executives, I couldn't go up and shake my hand and say, hey, David, I'm an HR consultant. I'd like to solve your problems. Because they look and go, I don't need job descriptions, I don't need a handbook, right? And so what I do now is I look at them and I say, you know, what's holding your business back? And, you know, they'll say anything from, oh, I need a new product line or I'm trying to break into a new market or, you know, something. But generally, it comes back to people. And that is how I work through them from a strategy perspective of let's break through that barrier. You want to get from 10 to 15 million, people are going to get you there. You want to get that new product to market? People are going to get you there. And so that's my job is I get the privilege of working with business owners who have these problems and are savvy enough to want to fix them and know they need that outside support.

David 2:44

So if there's any group that has had cataclysmic changing business conditions, arguably since 2010 when ACA was signed, it's the folks who listen to this podcast, by and large, who are benefit advisors. And they're the folks who are client-facing and they're trying to help the clients make sense out of all the crazy that is health insurance and employee benefits in the world. And yet we find that there are two kinds of folks that it's falling out into folks who want to try desperately to cling to the old way of doing stuff and hope it works out, and folks who say, the old way's gone. It's not working anymore. I've got to go build a new paradigm. What differentiates those people and why do some people get stuck in the old paradigm and can't let go?

SPEAKER_02 3:29

You know, most people would say, oh, it's because they don't want to change. Well, nobody really wants to change. We all like our little comfort bubble. I believe it's an unwillingness to see the possibilities. That old idea that the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know. So we've always done it this way. And while we may not be thriving, we're not hurting either. So let's just kind of keep on going. And what I've been sharing with folks lately is I used to rail against people whose mindsets were still in the industrial revolution. You know, that gotta have a rear end and a seat from eight to five or you're not working kind of mentality. And certainly current events have blown that philosophy out, thank goodness. And then you get the folks who say, well, we're in the information age, and people get information at their fingertips. No, that's gone. We're in the experience age now. And what I mean by that is if you want to harness the power of what's going on in your company, then you have to recognize that your people are living their lives in and through social media. And I'm not just talking about they got a profile on LinkedIn or a profile on Facebook. I'm talking about the interactive stuff, the YouTubes and the Instagrams and the Snapchats, all of those types of things where people are giving the world their viewpoint, their experiences, and they're experiencing others' views of the world through those same lenses. And that's proving to be a fundamental shift in how we're going to manage our people and grow our businesses moving forward. Because people are more educated now than ever before. Now, whether that means they've got a lot of information in their head or a lot of propaganda in their head, we could debate, but they are more educated than ever before because of the amount of information at their fingertips, and they're not afraid to share that. And so we have to, as business executives, be willing to harness that power and get the message out not just about our products and services, but about the employment experience that can happen when someone joins our company. And the the organizations that are willing to make that jump and are willing to say, this is the future. We are never going back to where someone's going to stay with me for 30 years and show up for work every day, eight to five, and punch the clock. It's gone. It's never coming back. If I'm willing to accept that and accept the fact that people want a true experience with their employment, man, can I harness some tremendous creativity and power in that? And that's what's going to differentiate businesses, I believe, in the next 10 years.

David 6:35

And yet we see people who understand that intellectually, but emotionally can't make that leap. How do you help get them across that chasm?

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, it's that's a hard one. And typically when I'm working with a, again, a business owner or executive, I ask them what their vision is. And not to be fluffy, because I'm I'm not much of a fluffy guy. I want to hear what they're thinking of. And so they might say something like, Well, gosh, Ed, my business is at $15 million. And my vision is I want to get it to 20 million. And at that point, I will have satisfied my drive. And I think at that point I might be ready to sell my business. Okay, great. What's keeping you right now from getting there? Oh, I can't find the right people. Oh, I don't have the right leadership team in place. Oh, I can't keep people on my staff. Oh, the market is too fickle. No matter what they tell me, it always comes back to people. And I say, okay, the reason that we're struggling is that people are expecting something more. And until you're willing to deliver that, you will continue to bump up against, in this case, say $10 million revenue. You will never break through that ceiling until you change how you're going to do business. If you're willing to flip that key, we can make it happen. We'll get you to $15 million. Not a problem. But if you're not willing to change, then you can't expect to have different results. It doesn't work that way. I think was it Einstein said that, right? And so fundamentally, something has to flip. I am speaking with a business owner now who's he's got his hand on the on the key. He's ready to flip it, but he keeps finding excuses not to. And every time we speak on the phone, I say, look, we've agreed that something needs to change, that you can no longer grow your business. He is at his max as a leader, in part because he does not have a solid leadership team around him. And he's doing way too much and he's already spread way too thin. So on one hand, I believe part of what I have to do is coach him as a leader and getting him to see the possibilities and see how his behavior is leading to his current situation. And so there has to be a bit of a coaching element sometimes where it may not be a quote, paid coaching engagement, but that may be as part of the process of getting, in this case, this gentleman especially to see how he has to change his viewpoint. And once I get him to that point, then it's a no-brainer to move forward.

David 9:16

Would it be fair to say that some of these folks are just victims of their own success?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

I think there's some of that. And I'll tell you, in this gentleman's case, one of his challenges is that he's been in, he's a second-generation owner of the family business. His father died prematurely. And so he didn't have the opportunity, he had to take the reins in his late 30s, maybe he was 40. And so he didn't have the opportunity to really get tutored in all aspects of the business by his father. Now, to his credit, he's really grown the business, to be sure. He's done some amazing things in the last 10 years, but it's almost been by sheer willpower. And when you talk to him now, he's tired. And at 51 years old, I don't think you should be tired. And he's certainly not ready to get out of the business or to spin the business off. And his children are not of age to take over. So he knows he's got to keep plugging. And so that's been some of our ongoing discussion is you're tired because you're doing it all. And you felt you had to take that on from your father when he passed. And I understand that, but that that's gone now. It's time to surround you with good people and then trust them to do what you've brought them in to do.

David 10:31

So you're talking about people who are, to use the old expression, working in their business rather than on their business. Absolutely.

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David 11:38

So when the switch gets flipped, when you're able to coach somebody to a point where they go, okay, I trust you. I'll let go of the rung of the ladder I've been clinging on to so I can reach for the next rung, is that liberating for these folks? Does that re-energize these folks? What do you see when that happens? Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

There is such a sense of relief when the decision is made that, okay, and I get it, they've got to trust me that I can help them. But there's that sense of relief when they start to see that all that energy that they were putting into managing day-to-day stuff and making everyday decisions. Now that that weight's off, they almost to one tell me how much more creative they are. Instead of when they take a walk to clear their mind, instead of coming back to all the problems, they start to think about opportunities. It's like their creative juices can now flow more freely simply because they're not bogged down with problems. They're paying other people to manage those problems and make those tough decisions. And they're allowing themselves now to say, okay, how do I get my vision to reality in the next X years? If it's that $5 million jump or whatever it is, what's the time? What am I going to have to do? How am I going to fend off competitors? Do I need to buy another business to complement mine? Can I buy a competitor? You know, what those are the kind of things that these folks start to talk about when they free themselves from the really the handcuffs of making the everyday decisions inside the organization. But they're self-imposed handcuffs. Absolutely they are. And they know where the key is. That's the best part. You know, they they've locked themselves up. They've got the handcuff on one wrist tied to the radiator, but the key's in the other hand. And so it's really a matter of saying, okay, hand, I want you to go over here and unlock me. I can't do that for them. I can lead them to water, right? I can tell them, look, the key's in your hand and the locks in your hand. Let's, we can make this happen. But they have to make that decision. And so when I have, you know, it saddens me for business owners who get in that rut, who get stuck and can't see their way out. Because invariably what ends up happening is that the business begins to wane, they sell it off, and now they're probably not of true retirement age, and they're not sure what they want to do, and they didn't make enough on the sale to really live the life they wanted to live after all those years of investing every bit of their being into their business. That's a shame. I've always thought that if you go into business, it should be fun. You should enjoy what you're doing. And not that that means there's not going to be problems, but that you welcome those problems, you see them as opportunities, you're ready to tackle the day. And when I see business owners that are just tired, it saddens me because I know that tiring is also coming from a state of physical health imbalance as well. And that's no good either.

David 14:42

No, of course not. So I mean, if they're willing to make the leap, it sounds almost like they're returning to where they were mentally when they started the business. They're having fun, they're being creative, they're looking for ways to grow rather than just trying to tamp out today's set of forest fires. Yeah, it's it's very true. So is part of it that I'm just trying to get to the nucleus of this, and I know that's probably it's multifaceted, but is some of this that that we all tend to define ourselves by our career, and some of these folks are worried that if they make this kind of a change, they won't know how to define themselves any longer?

SPEAKER_02 15:17

I think that was true. It was definitely true. Let me put this way of the baby boomers. I'm an Xer, and you know, when I look at a lot of the business owners and decision makers I'm working with now, they're Xers or they're the older part of the millennial generation, and they define themselves a little bit differently. And what I'm finding is that yes, for for the boomers, they're on one hand afraid to let go because being a business owner defines them. And they're not sure what they'll do if and when they let go. Even though they say they want to golf more or boat more or travel, when that's presented to them, all of a sudden they're not sure. On the other hand, when you talk to, again, an Xer or a millennial, they say, look, I want to grow this business and I love what I'm doing, but there is, there's more to life that I want to experience. And so we're back to that age of experience again, right? And so they get this concept of I busted really hard the last 10 years to build this thing, and I'm willing to still keep the foot on the throttle, but I want other people to share in the decision making and the tough pieces of this job. And I'm willing to reward them for helping me solve those problems, but I need to get some of them off my plate. And it's not just because they're they're worried about their health, which the younger generations seem to not take, or excuse me, to take more for granted at times than the older generation, but they're they're waking up to this idea that I don't want to be that person who went, you know, full bore ahead for 30 years, retired, and the next day, you know, I'm I'm falling over with heart disease or obesity or whatever. And so, you know, it seems like we're on a health talk show and not a business talk show, but yet they're so interrelated. And in how we what we give of our personal beings to that living, breathing organism that is our business.

David 17:17

Absolutely. I I mean, you said earlier that you think for a lot of folks coming into businesses that it's about the user experience. So as a business owner, what kind of environment do I need to create? What are these folks that I want to have on my team looking for that that maybe they weren't looking for in my generation?

SPEAKER_02 17:35

I would love, Dave, to give you the silver bullet for that one. But here's the uh, I don't know, the gold bullet or the copper bullet. And that's you just ask them. Every, you know, I am amazed at the number of times I I I've given talks at conferences, and we're on a topic like this, and I'll I know several hundred people in the audience. Okay, how many of you know exactly what your people want? Of course, hands go up all over the place. I say, all right. When's the last time you asked your people what they really want? And I might get five or 10% of the hands go up. I say, wait a minute, guys, how can you know that you're giving your people what they want if you never asked them? That doesn't even make sense. And I take them through an exercise based on a study that I had found where they surveyed, I don't know, 700 different organizations, so hundreds and hundreds, thousands of executives. And they they gave them seven things that were drivers of employee retention and engagement. And they said, you know, just rank these. What do you think are the top three? And so, of course, they came up with the top three. Well, then they turned around these 700 organizations, asked the exact same question of the people. And as you might suspect, the top three weren't, there was no similarities between the top three of what the people said were important and what the executives said were important. And to me, that is so incredibly telling that we sit in boardrooms and we make decisions about where we're going to spend our people dollars. And that usually is at least 30% of our operating budget, usually more, especially if you're in a service industry. And so you're going to make that kind of investment in your business and not be a hundred percent sure that that investment is going to get you the return that you want. I find that mind-boggling. I think about a case where I was working with an organization and I and I asked them about all the things they're doing for their people. And their sacred cow that you didn't touch was the employee picnic. And it used to be that they had it on site, they had the pig roast and the families and all that, but as they grew it, just they outgrew the ability to do that. So, like so many organizations here in the central part of Pennsylvania, they up and took everyone to Hershey Park. Well, lots of people didn't go. And then they start saying, Well, we'd like you to pitch in $5 to help cover some of the costs. Well, then people got up in arms about all this. Yeah, this was costing this company like $40,000 a year to run a company picnic for Pete's sake. Meanwhile, everyone every year on their birthday gets a certificate for $10 to go to the local bake shop and get a birthday cake. And you can custom order it, right? Any any kind of icing, any kind of cake, any kind of saying on it for that matter. Over 99% of those certificates get used every year. Yet only about 35% of the people show up at Hershey Park. Like, guys, what are you doing? Your people are telling you they want the simple things, they want the easy things. This is not rocket science. That's the way I try to get my clients to think about if you're going to look to change your culture, you're going to touch anything that involves your people and ask your people what they want. And they're afraid to give it, they're afraid to ask because what if I can't give it to them? Then we will go down that road if we can't do it. But if you don't ask, you're going to spend money you don't need to spend. And I just don't believe that's a recipe for a good business decision.

David 21:11

And that's a great place to end our conversation, Dave, because I'll go back to something you said at the very beginning. It all comes down to people. Ed Crow, thank you so much for sharing your expertise with our audience today. We appreciate it and we hope you'll come back.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

I would absolutely love to come back, Dave. Thank you.

Announcer 21:28

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