David Saltzman: 0:01

It may or it may not surprise you that when you look at lists of most trusted professions, insurance advisors don't even make the list. It's not a question of ranking, we're just not there. So what's the problem And, more to the point, what can we do about it? We'll find out on this episode of Shift Shapers.

Host: 0:25

This is the Shift Shapers podcast, connecting benefits advisors with thought leaders and entrepreneurs who are shaping the shifts in the industry. And now here's your host, david Saltzman.

David Saltzman: 0:38

And to help us answer that question, we've invited Cory Sheer, founder and CEO of TrustCentric Consulting. Cory, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much, david. It's great to be with you. It's our pleasure. Tell us a little bit about your journey, because it seems like everybody's journey is really interesting And these days ends up doing what they set out to do.

Cory Scheer: 0:56

So that is absolutely true for my journey as well.

Cory Scheer: 1:00

I'll take you back briefly about 10 years ago, when I entered into a doctoral program, coming off of the heels of an executive MBA program.

Cory Scheer: 1:10

I just couldn't get enough education, apparently, and even though I had four kids at the time and was working a full-time job, i dove headfirst into a doctoral program at the University of Missouri, and as I identified the problem that I wanted to solve for my doctoral research, i came across this really fascinating theoretical framework that was conducted in the late 90s, early 2000s, and their goal was to identify loyalty factors for customers, and so they looked at the airline industry and also the retail industry, and as they did that, they found that there were various elements of value proposition that was increasing people's loyalty.

Cory Scheer: 1:49

But even before that, they identified three very specific elements that builds or breaks down trust within an organization, and so I resonated with that theoretical framework. I used that framework to do all of my research, and now I talk about that framework. I have developed solutions and products that connect with the research that was conducted by them, as well as my own personal national research. And that's what I do with Trust. Centric is we help organizations assess and then take action on specific ways to strengthen organizational trust with their people and their policies and practices.

David Saltzman: 2:28

That's awesome, so let's dig in. What is the trust problem?

Cory Scheer: 2:33

Well, the trust problem is pervasive.

Cory Scheer: 2:35

Unfortunately, it is truly an epidemic that is occurring across all industries, in every region of the country.

Cory Scheer: 2:42

Based on our research, and we have many, many data points that show this crumbling of trust over the course of the last many, many years But two data points that really rose to the top from our research the first one is that 51% of employees do not have a high level of trust for their leaders, so that in and of itself is a staggering statistic. But the second one that's also equally staggering is this gap in trust that occurs between the CEO or the leadership team of an organization and the frontline employees or the individual contributors, and this gap in the perception of trust on average across all industries is 31%. And so when you think about some of the challenges that every organization faces, with quiet quitting and the great resignation and casual Mondays and employee retention issues, employee loyalty, advocacy, even work ethic what we see is that so much of that takes root and really grows within that gap, and so the question is not why is trust so important, but rather how is it that we can do something about this trust epidemic that we're seeing in all industries?

David Saltzman: 3:58

I know that you believe the trust is strategic. What does that mean?

Cory Scheer: 4:02

Yeah, that's a great question. I think in all of the interviews that I've done over the course of the last decade through my doctoral work and just individual conversations and also, of course, with my clients what I see time and time again is that it feels like trust is elusive enough or kind of squishy enough to where it's almost as if trust is an outcome as opposed to an input or a strategy, and I've yet to meet an organization where trust is actually something that they measure as its own independent KPI. And so one of the missions that I have working with organizations is to make trust a KPI that they can measure, that they can assess whether it quantitative or qualitative, and by making it a KPI, what it requires an organization then to do is to align their resources towards that and become much more strategic, and when they do that, not only do they see the trust increase, but they will also see their value proposition increase, as well as the loyalty of their staff, as well as their customers.

David Saltzman: 5:03

How does one measure those things?

Cory Scheer: 5:06

Well, how we measure it is. We utilize the proven framework that was established two decades ago, what I call the structure of trust, and what we look at are three vital building blocks of trust that apply to both the people realm as well as the policy and the practice realm. And those three strategic building blocks are organizational competencies And there are, of course, many competencies within every organization and every leader and every employee. Then we have to look at problem solving skills. So that is another building block that's vital. And then the third vital building block is how people demonstrate care for others. So those three building blocks competency, problem solving and care for others And then what we do is we ask very specific questions that both assesses the current level of trustworthiness within each of those three building blocks, and we utilize an assessment, we have a proprietary assessment that we share with our clients.

Cory Scheer: 6:06

We can then begin to assess how individuals are doing within the organization and the organization as a whole. We look at that data and then we build a plan, or what we call a blueprint, and then we of course put tactics and resources towards those specific plans or those gaps and priorities of trust, and then we're able to measure it three or six or 12 months later, with that same assessment.

David Saltzman: 6:32

If over half of all employees don't have a high level of trust in their leadership? how do you ask those questions and get honest answers in a non-trust environment?

Cory Scheer: 6:44

That's a great question and it's actually. It's interesting because I find that with leaders who have been a part of the organization for less than six months, it's much easier for them to deploy an assessment to their staff If it's over six months. Honestly, there is an element of it feels almost like an indictment which I have to assure them that it is not an indictment that, whether they measure it or not, the reality of their trust issues. They still exist, and so it does require some leadership and organizational courage to take the next step towards assessing it.

Cory Scheer: 7:21

Now, sometimes where we start from an assessment standpoint is we only ask a few questions that are more forward thinking, and so, specifically, we ask, as we think about the next six months and we know these five priorities from the national data are most vital for building trust How much of a priority should our organization put on these priorities? And then that's an easier way to start to engage individuals, especially in a low trust environment. Then, of course, we can ask more of the what is the current state of trust? the survey instrument that we use it's completely anonymous We don't even capture email addresses And so we have to ensure that we're communicating that to those who are taking the assessment, but it is interesting. Recently I met with one of my clients and the CEO looked at their survey data and they said this data is both helpful and it's hopeful, because they now know where to put some of their energy and effort as it relates to strengthening organizational trust.

David Saltzman: 8:24

There seems to be an epidemic of lack of introspection among a lot of today's leaders. When you deliver those kinds of results, do you work with them to help them understand how to be more self-aware as they go forward in their trust-building journey?

Cory Scheer: 8:40

I do. It's interesting. It's the emotions that people experience when they have either experienced a toxic work environment or they're in the midst of one and they're doing everything possible to help heal that environment. It is very real emotion. It's at times visceral, it is something that deeply affects individuals and leaders and organizations, well beyond the normal working hours of the week, and so much of what I do is listening to leaders. In fact, active listening is the number one way to build trust within the one building block of caring for others. It's actually the best way to build trust in that building block by about six percentage points, according to our data.

Cory Scheer: 9:26

So one of the things that I try to do is I try to demonstrate to leaders and teams and organizations the very thing that I'm asking them to consider doing in more tactical ways. In one of the ways that I do that is, i always begin with listening. The other thing that I do is I have a very simple framework of conversation that I regularly utilize and I frame these three questions. The first one is what are you currently most grateful for within your organization? Second, what are some of the challenges that you're experiencing? And then, third, as a result of your gratitude and certainly in light of your challenges, what do you feel like are some of the opportunities moving forward And if we can nest those conversations within a framework of trust that tends to really resonate with leaders and it allows them to simplify their focus and their thinking towards trust and it gives them hope that they can move their organization forward.

David Saltzman: 10:23

You mentioned earlier that there are five key areas that you ask questions about, and you've mentioned one of them offhandedly. Would you tick through the five of them for us?

Cory Scheer: 10:32

Yeah, as far as the priorities, yes, you bet. So this is part of the. When we think about the organizational trust assessment, it's very, very important that we invite leaders into a conversation about what is it that we want to prioritize moving forward, and so here are the five specific areas that we found, from our national research, to be most vital for organizations to build trust. The first one is regular employee feedback. The second is more honest conversations. The third is more transparency, which does not always necessarily equal complete transparency. The next is a clear strategy for building trust with people, policies, procedures and, of course, pricing, depending on the type of organization it is. And then the final, the fifth of the five priorities, is that there is clear ownership of tasks and projects, and that ownership is something that is really vital because it provides focus.

Cory Scheer: 11:37

But those are the five most important priorities that we found from our research, which, again, i think every leader, every individual, would feel like. Yes, that's true, but there is something pretty powerful about bringing these specific, data driven five priorities into a conversation. Because of all of the things that people could do to try to build trust, it's really important that we have something that is empirical, that's been proven that they can focus their energy and effort. Otherwise it becomes diluted or it becomes it's fractured, because it becomes more about the personality of the leader or the existing culture or maybe the status quo, and so we try to really sharpen the point on. This is how you can move your organization forward with trust.

David Saltzman: 12:24

You mentioned the word culture, and corporate culture is a big buzzword again. It seems to come in and out of fashion. Is trust the first building block of that? I mean, can you actually have a good corporate culture in the absence of trust?

Cory Scheer: 12:39

Long term. What the research says is that, over time, if trust is depleted, the research shows that as that trust depletes, so too will the value proposition and then therefore so too will the loyalty. So over time, eventually, if trust continues to erode your organizational culture and therefore how you are interacting with your customers and your products, it will. You will see a significant effect. The other thing is, if you think more in terms of the practical KPIs that are most affected by a lack of trust, with employer retention, employee loyalty, employee advocacy, and even from our research, something that was surprising was that people admitted that when they have a low level of trust for their leaders, they will work less hard. That was actually stated very specifically and clearly in our research. They will. They will choose to just basically be lazier and not put as much commitment and effort, and so that, of course, is translated into the vital KPI of employee productivity. So, of course, over time, if those key performance indicators continue to drop, then then the organization will not be flourishing.

David Saltzman: 13:53

But trust is not a switch that you can turn on and toggle off. So if you sense that you have lost trust or you don't have the complete trust of a workforce, what are a couple of things that leaders can do immediately, without studies, KPIs, conversations etc. To try to start rebuilding that other than being self-aware.

Cory Scheer: 14:14

You've got a great question, so I'll utilize the framework to give just a high level. The first building block of competency doing a competencies assessment. So, are people doing what they need to be doing? Are they doing what they have been hired to do? That's a first level of assessment. Whether you have three employees or 3,000 employees, it's vital that you are consistently looking at. Are the people that we've hired consistent and are they competent at doing what they're supposed to be doing? That's number one.

Cory Scheer: 14:44

Number two is it relates to problem solving. This is where self-reflection and an executive team's self-reflection is very, very important, which is are we actually identifying problems as problems Or are we thinking about things as more of a nuisance or an inconvenience and not really addressing the actual problems within our organization? So that's question number one that has to be asked as relates to problem solving. And then the final in regards to caring for others, or what some might call organizational benevolence. This is where a very simple assessment of are we doing a good job of creating expectations around our leaders and our managers? Are they formally providing opportunities where they are actively listening to their team members?

Cory Scheer: 15:33

If that active listening and this is not done via text, via chat via email. Active listening is face-to-face, whether on a screen or in person, where you are listening to the needs of individuals, you're mirroring their questions and responses, you're taking notes in a meaningful way, you're responding to their needs, you're letting them vent appropriately, you're addressing some of their concerns and then, ultimately, you are demonstrating that you have a care for their needs that go even beyond their workplace requirements, but you care for the whole person, meaning their social needs, their vocational needs, the things that are happening around them in life. You wanna make sure that you're demonstrating an appropriate amount of care and concern.

David Saltzman: 16:22

Right, wrong or indifferent. Is there a perception of a correlation between trust and competence?

Cory Scheer: 16:31

Well, i think that there is. I think what our research shows and demonstrates over and over is that competency is a vital building block of trust. But competency in and of itself does not only define trust, which is challenging because when we hire individuals, we typically hire individuals primarily based on their competencies. That's usually what a resume or a CV would demonstrate to us is what are the competencies of this individual? how do they align with the job or acquisition? do they look good As it relates to their fit within the organization with their skill sets?

Cory Scheer: 17:09

The opportunity that we have, even in the hiring process, as well as the 90 day formal review, the quarterly review, the annual review, coaching conversations, is to expand that definition of trust from just competency to is this person a problem solver? How do they define problems? How do they begin to anticipate problems? What are examples from their past work where they took a complex problem, made it more simple and move the organization forward? And then the third and the more difficult from a hiring standpoint, which, interestingly, from a statistical standpoint, this is the building block that organizations struggle with the most, which is demonstrating true care for others. How do you create an interview process by which you can understand their commitment to caring for others, which may require going out to dinner as a group, in a group interview, and watching them interact with a server or management at that restaurant or their Uber driver, or whatever the case may be, to start seeing, or they're demonstrating emotional intelligence and caring for others and just normal day-to-day interactions.

Cory Scheer: 18:17

But if our interviews, as in this example, are limited only to a resume review and one or two interviews that talk about their competency skills, unfortunately that gives us an incomplete view of their trustworthiness and their ultimate contribution to the organization.

David Saltzman: 18:34

Do organizations that I gross generalization, but do organizations that only look at those kinds of core work competencies and don't look at the other issues you just mentioned, do they typically show as organizations that have a challenge with trust?

Cory Scheer: 18:53

Well, they will always run the risk of having a trust issue. Of course, some industries are highly, highly dependent upon technical competence, and problem-solving may or may not be as high of a value for the organization, and or care for others may not be as high of a value, but the encouragement for every organization is to ensure that we're doing everything possible to increase competency, increase problem-solving, increase care for others and not just for people, but also our policies, our practices, our procedures and our pricing that we are then carrying out and passing along to our customers to interact with us.

David Saltzman: 19:34

And that's a great place to end our conversation for today. Cory Sheer, founder and CEO of Trust Center Consulting. Cory, great conversation, very interesting. Thanks for sharing your expertise with us.

Cory Scheer: 19:45

Thank you so much, david, it really was a privilege.